EEP15>16>17>18 - International user's wish

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  • Hello Trend Verlag

    I have been looking at the new features in EEP14. They look ok, and as I've become an EEP junkie, I will probably buy it.

    But after spending 9 months as an EEP user and 6-7 months as a member of this forum, it is crystal clear to me, that EEP is 102% German. Which would be fair enoug, if I had found the game on Trend Verlag's site, and bought it knowing this was predominantly German. Thing is - since EEP opened their showroom on Steam, there should be a moral obligation to serve international users better.

    I'm a stubborn person. When I find something I love, I get very dedicated. I love EEP. But most gamers in this world don't "love" games. They like them and have fun with them.

    I have tried a number of times to find other forum users, that are non-German and don't communicate well in German. The only person in here, who fulfills both these two critiria - is me...

    I have met sooo many nice and helpful people in here so that's not the problem. But it takes time for an international user to break the German barrier. Trend are so d*mn lucky they have Götz. If it wasn't for him, I probably would have left EEP behind. Before I realized how many helpful there are in here.

    I'm not suggesting that EEP should be less German or leave Germans behind in any way. But I feel more than certain now, that international users of the game, use it for a short while, and then skip buying models or involving themselves in, what is essential for the optimum use of the game: being part of the creative community in EEP via this forum.

    So if EEP and Trend Verlag really want to get hold on the users they can get from the rest of the world, I would like to suggest to essential things.

    1 - Skip the so called "English Speaking Corner" in this forum. Let international users blend in the threads that are relevant to the subject they want to discuss. Don't expell us to some corner. Corners in many languages gives the impression, that you are watching the excitement from a distance. We are not really invited to take part as fully members from Day One.

    I have taken up this point earlier, and I know it has been heard, but I can't see any real movement. And I guess if nothing changes, I will still be the only non-German speaking active member on the forum in four-five years from now.

    2 - from EEP15 an forwards, I think you should have a non-German country or region, as a "theme" in every new version. Austria, Switzerland and France has been treated. But there are huge lacks in huge railroad countries like the UK, Japan, Eastern Europe. Nordic users like myself could easily be treated with one loko, one passenger car, and one or two significant landmarks.

    Let's say EEP15 is launched with UK as the theme. Give UK users a couple of loko's, a passengerwaggon, a railcar (triebwagen), a couple of freight waggons, and a couple of significant British landmarks like ie Big Ben. EEP16 - Japan. EEP17 - Russia. And maybe if the mad Dane is lucky: EEP25 Nordic countries. That is the normal and functional recipe for other computer games, when they want to reach out to new customer segments. And it works.

    IF Trend Verlag keep on neglecting this possibility, then at least do your potential international customers on Steam, a fair and clear warning before buying the game: "This is a 100% German Game, and the official forum is 99% German speaking. Then you won't hear a word of complaint from me or others like me again.

    Please make that choice internally in Trend Verlag once and for all, and follow the route you, yourselves, have laid before you. We have a beautiful Danish saying. "Man kan ikke blæse og have mel i munden samtidig." Meaning "You can't blow a horn if you have flour in your mouth." So my biggest wish, which I guess would be agreed by a lot of other international users IF they where here, is that make that choice. Play the horn, or keep the flour in the mouth.

    All the very best from a huge international EEP-fan
    Dith

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  • there should be a moral obligation to serve international users better.

    All German stock (with very few exceptions) was created by freelance modellers who joined the community. Sure - it'll take some time before any modellers from the UK, US and other nations join the community and add models representing their countries. But that's the route it'll have to go. Because that local knowledge and the access to local objects (for measurements, texture fotos etc.) is a vital requirement for accurate modelling.


    P.S.: I should have continued reading, instead of responding after the first paragraph. Sorry.


    Skip the so called "English Speaking Corner" in this forum.

    The idea behind this section was a message to all non-German speaking EEP fans:

    "Don't fret because you can't speak German. We accommodate for you too."

    Without this section, some fans might not dare and enter a posting in English somewhere among all the German entries.

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Goetz ().

  • Hello TransEuropa ,


    1 - Skip the so called "English Speaking Corner" in this forum. Let international users blend in the threads that are relevant to the subject they want to discuss. Don't expell us to some corner. Corners in many languages gives the impression, that you are watching the excitement from a distance. We are not really invited to take part as fully members from Day One.

    We can rename "English Speaker's Corner", this should be the least problem. :ae_1:


    We have set up this "corner" at that time to give the non-English speaking users the possibility to post their problems with EEP.

    Please make a specific proposal as to what we should Change.


    Wir können gerne "Englisch Speakers Corner" umbenennen, das sollte das geringste Problem sein. :ae_1:


    Wir haben diese "Ecke" seinerzeit eingerichtet um auch den nicht deutsch sprechenden User die Möglichkeit zu geben, ihre Probleme die mit EEP auftreten zu posten.

    Mach bitte einen konkreten Vorschlag, was wir ändern sollten.

    Viele Grüße

    marler1957


  • Thanks for being constructive and listening...

    See - this is the point I love about the game and the forum. It is wonderful people and a brilliant community. My point is, that if you are not as stubborn as me, then new international users don't stay long enough to experience it.

    Marler: this is something that should be thought through, and not just a fast gunshot from me. My initial suggestion is something like: "International Users - Start here."

    That doesn't restrict it to English, but invites russian, italians, japanese etc etc. And it tells them only to start in that section, but not to stay there the entire time.

    The reason I keep on writing in that corner, is that I never really understood if I am welcome to take up issues in the more relevant parts of the forum. At the same time, I know a lot of the community doesn't look in the corner, so issues that could have been done or solved, will lie still in that section. Yesterday in my thread about my TT sets, Uwe translated it into German, in the hope that someone would then react. My guess is that someone would have reacted by now, if the issue and text was in the relevant section of the forum.

    Götz: About international themes in upcoming versions. It is a business decision Götz. Not a religious orthodox law. Business decisions can be changed and reverted, if the company feels it can make money better or easier in another. And you don't have to attend more than one or two lectures in how business works anno 2017, to know, that the businesses that succeed or even survive, are the businesses that are willing to change thier entire path or platform in a forthnight. So unless I (at this point) still haven't noticed that this is not a game from a game development company, but a weird religious sect with rules written in granite, then of course that can be changed.

    Example 1: Take 1-2 of your best freelancers, and give them a part time contract to make 6-8 models in half a year. If you want to make money, you have to invest money. Trend can't be the only company in the world who hasn't discovered that little recipe.

    Example 2: As I have mentioned a couple of other times - take one model of each category and make it completely TT-able. Siemens delivers so many trains to so many countries. McIwer (I think) made the 146 tauschable But not without the DB logo, that destroys the illusion of a real DSB train.

    Again thanks for being constructive and listening.
    Dennis

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  • Quote

    weird religious sect with rules written in granite

    you got it :an_1:

    ...written in granite (in German)

    Nothing like a big laugh after letting out steam.

    Denn

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  • ...
    The reason I keep on writing in that corner, is that I never really understood if I am welcome to take up issues in the more relevant parts of the forum....

    I have to quote myself here. Because I really need an answer to this. Is it OK for a user like me, to start acting in the other parts of the forum? All documents on how to behave in forum are in (ta-daaaaa) German ;-)

    Denn

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  • Is it OK for a user like me, to start acting in the other parts of the forum?

    Dear Dennis :)


    from my point of view acting and starting in the entire forum is very welcome indeed.


    Regards

    Ingo

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  • Cheers Ingo,

    I will return that with being polite, constructive, and try to remember to translate my posting into german when posting in the other parts.

    All the best
    Denn

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  • try to remember to translate my posting into german when posting in the other parts.

    Dear Dennis :)


    I think that's a very good idea. Even though the translation might not be perfect, native german speakers will understand what you intend to say. I'm quite sure ;)


    Regards

    Ingo

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  • Even though the translation might not be perfect, native german speakers will understand what you intend to say.

    Stephané is a good example.

    He doesn't speak German either, writes his posts in the relevant sections and is well understood.

  • Stephané is a good example

    Hello Denn,

    like Goetz says, is Stephané a good example. His first language is french, but he write his text not only in french but also in english and german - I think translated by google. So it´s much easier for a lot of users here to understand him and give tips.


    It would be a great aim to get so much international EEP-users, that for the countrys can open their own forum, having their own designer and so their own national equipment. But I think, it is a long way.

    nach Umzug:


    Grüße aus dem MÜNSTERland,

    Dieter :bm_1: (DB2)


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  • I knew there was one, and I knew he was French - but I couldn't remeber his name. Stephane...!

    Cool - now we are two. That's double up ;-)

    All the best
    Dee

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  • Hallo, Transeuropa!

    Ich weiss, dass ich ein "Aussenseiter" bin, denn ich bin Deutscher, baue aber derzeit Modelle für die SNCF, also für die französischen EEP-Freunde. Wenn ich diese Modelle für einen Grundbestand an französichem Rollmaterial und Zubehör geschaffen habe, möchte ich mich auch anderen europäischen Ländern widmen. Wegen der Verwandschaft des SNCF Rollmaterial baue ich erst einmal Fahrzeuge aus den Benelux Staaten.

    Aber ich habe schon mit Fahrzeugen der British Railways begonnen, zum Beispiel die Diesellokomotiven der Klasse 40 und die "Rats", also die Klasse 25. Auch möchte ich einmal die BR 08 in Angriff nehmen, die ja mit der Niederländischen Klasse 500/600 verwandt ist. Aber es ist schwierig, da es nicht sehr viel britisches Rollmaterial in EEP gibt. Also muss ich hier auch einen Grundbestand schaffen. Einige Güterwagen, einige essentielle Reisezugwagen. Dazu dann noch etwas Zubehör, wie Signale und spezielle Einrichtungen, welche es nur bei der Britischen Eisenbahn gibt.

    Auch habe ich schon vor längerer Zeit, bevor ich Konstrukteur bei Trend wurde, einige USA-Modelle begonnen.

    Da ich aber so ziemlich allein an dieser Front kämpfe, wird es noch lange dauern, bis hier britische Modelle erscheinen.


    (Übersetzt mit Google, sorry:)


    Hello, Transeuropa!


    I know that I am an "outsider", because I am a German, but I am currently developing models for the SNCF, the French EEP friends. If I have created these models for a basic stock of French rolling stock and accessories, I would also like to devote myself to other European countries. Because of the relationship of the SNCF rolling stock, I first build vehicles from the Benelux countries.


    But I have already begun with British Railways vehicles, such as Class 40 diesel locomotives and the "Rats" (Class 25). I would also like to start the BR 08, which is related to the Dutch class 500/600 is. But it is difficult because there is not very much British rolling stock in EEP. So I have to create here a basic stock. Some freight cars, some essential passenger cars. Then there are some accessories, such as signals and special facilities, which are only available on the British Railways.




    I also started some USA models a long time ago before I became a designer at Trend.


    But as I fight so pretty alone on this front, it will take a long time before British models appear here.


    Gruß und Freundschaft,

    Hein vom Niederrhein :af_1:


    Gruß und Freundschaft,

    Hein vom Niederrhein


    Ein echter Freund spricht nicht zu Dir von oben herab, wenn Du am Boden liegst. Er legt sich neben Dich, und sagt:" Was für eine bescheidene Aussicht! Lass uns aufstehen."

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  • This is such good news. I adore some of the French work you did, and I appreciate your openess towards international users needs. Thumbs up!!!

    I just got a weird idea.

    Maybe one or two constructors could "rent" themselves out to international users like myself. I would gladly consider using 70-80 euros (maybe even more), if I could "order" a specific train or vehicle model. Even if you after that choose to put it up in the shop to a lower price.

    As I'm Danish, I would feel awful to jump ahead of Brits, Dutch etc etc, who are much bigger or dyer need than the apparently single Danish user. In that sence, I just have to sit back and wait for years, until Denmark becomes interesting.

    But if one or two constructors dedicated three months a year, to "take orders", maybe the process to get a Danish train could be shortened.

    Let me use, you and I as examples on this concept:

    - I pay a you as the constructor ie 100 euro, to build a train or vehicle.
    - when the model has been build, you put it up for sale in the shop
    - I (or the person who ordered it), already payed 100 euro, and don't have to buy it
    - everyone else has to buy at a normal EEP-shop price ie 8 -10 euro
    - when the unit has sold enough and you as the constructor has made a certain and fulfilling amount of money thru the shop, the person that ordered the train gets 75 euro back on the deal.

    That way I used 25 euros to order the train. The constructor gets 100 euro no matter what for building it. And both of them are honoured, and the constructor can't end up thinking he/she waisted their time, going down the ie Danish path. I only get the 75 euros back IF the unit sells enough. Otherwise I have to accept that I used 100 euros on it. EEPshop/Trend can easily build in a "Requested Model" marking in the database, that monthly will monitor, when a model has reached that "break-even" point.. Then the orderer of the model, get's back the 75 euro. That would be hard in 2005, but it is as easy as changing your pants in 2017.

    Just an idea - but I hope it shows ppl in here, that I'm not just ranting. I really want to be constructive about this.

    *********************************


    Das ist eine gute Nachricht. Ich verehre einige der französischen Arbeiten, die du getan hast, und ich schätze deine Offenheit gegenüber internationalen Benutzern. Daumen hoch!!!


    Ich habe gerade eine seltsame Idee.


    Vielleicht könnten ein oder zwei Konstrukteure sich selbst für internationale Benutzer selbst vermieten. Ich würde mich gern mit 70-80 Euro (vielleicht sogar noch mehr) bedanken, wenn ich ein bestimmtes Zug- oder Fahrzeugmodell "bestellen" könnte. Auch wenn Sie nach dem wählen, um es in den Laden zu einem niedrigeren Preis zu stellen.


    Als ich dänisch bin, würde ich mich schrecklich fühlen, vor Briten, Holländer usw. zu springen, die viel größer oder gefärbt sind, als der scheinbar einzige dänische Benutzer. In diesem Sinne muss ich mich nur zurücklehnen und auf Jahre warten, bis Dänemark interessant wird.


    Aber wenn ein oder zwei Konstrukteure drei Monate im Jahr gewidmet haben, um "Aufträge zu nehmen", vielleicht könnte der Prozess, einen dänischen Zug zu bekommen, verkürzt werden.


    Lassen Sie mich verwenden, Sie und ich als Beispiele zu diesem Konzept:


    - Ich bezahle dich als Konstruktor, dh 100 Euro, um einen Zug oder ein Fahrzeug zu bauen.

    - Wenn das Modell gebaut wurde, hast du es im Shop gekauft

    - Ich (oder die Person, die es bestellt hat), hat bereits 100 Euro bezahlt und muss es nicht kaufen

    - jeder hat bei einem normalen EEP-Shop-Preis zB 8 -10 Euro zu kaufen

    - Wenn das Gerät genug verkauft hat und du als der Konstruktor eine gewisse und erfüllte Menge an Geld durch den Laden gemacht hat, bekommt die Person, die den Zug bestellt hat, 75 Euro wieder auf den Deal.


    Auf diese Weise habe ich 25 Euro benutzt, um den Zug zu bestellen. Der Konstruktor bekommt 100 Euro egal was für den Aufbau es. Und beide sind geehrt, und der Konstrukteur kann nicht am Ende denken er / sie taumelte ihre Zeit und ging den dänischen Weg hinunter. Ich bekomme nur die 75 Euro zurück, wenn die Einheit genug verkauft. Ansonsten muss ich akzeptieren, dass ich 100 Euro dafür benutzt habe. EEPshop / Trend kann problemlos in einer "angeforderten Modell" -Markierung in der Datenbank aufbauen, die monatlich überwachen wird, wenn ein Modell diesen "Break-even" -Punkt erreicht hat. Dann ist der Besteller des Modells, bekommt den 75 Euro zurück. Das wäre hart im Jahr 2005, aber es ist so einfach wie das Ändern Ihrer Hose im Jahr 2017.


    Nur eine Idee - aber ich hoffe es zeigt hier ppl, dass ich nicht nur schimpfe. Ich möchte wirklich konstruktiv sein.


    All the best - Grüse
    Dennis

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  • Stephané is a good example.

    He doesn't speak German either, writes his posts in the relevant sections and is well understood.

    Indeed, but I like to promote myself also here :ba_1:


    Few years ago I mostly have written my posts in English, even in the famous "English speaking corner". As I understand German very well, I have "evoluated" to more writing in German, because I experienced that some German forum members didn't understand English quite well.


    I can support your call to go more international very well, the problem is however that EEP has it's origin in Germany and 97% of the constructors are German (I suppose I am part of the other 3%).


    EepNolie


    Ja, ich mag mich auch hier selbst fördern :ba_1:


    Vor einigen Jahren habe ich meistens meine Beiträge auf Englisch geschrieben, auch in der "English speaking corner". Da ich Deutsch sehr gut verstehe, habe ich mich in deutscher Sprache "weiterentwickelt", weil ich erlebt habe, dass einige deutsche Forummitglieder Englisch nicht richtig verstanden haben.

    Ich kann deinen Anruf unterstützen, um sehr internationaler zu gehen, das Problem ist aber, dass EEP in Deutschland entstanden ist und 97% der Konstrukteure Deutsch sind (ich nehme an, ich bin ein Teil der anderen 3%).


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  • Hallo Dennis,

    I appreciate your proposal and approach, it is most interesting and worth to be discussed. However be sure that every international user was and is welcome and if you look into the "English Speakers Corner" you will find, that you are not so alone as you state. We have contributions of users from the US and Great Britain as well as from other countries.

    However, as mentioned, your thread should be an impetus to improve the forum, open it more to invite international users.

    Viele Grüße aus Franken
    Manfred
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  • Hallo, Dennis!


    Gut zu wissen, dass Du Dänischer bist. Da habe ich einen kleine Sache für Dich. Ich habe, das ist bekannt, ein Projekt, aus dem auch die SNCF-CC 40100 stammt, das die Internationalen Züge in Köln behandelt, und zwar mit der Lokomotive der NMBS/SNCB Reihe 18. Im Rahmen dieses Projektes plane ich auch, den kompletten "Nord-Express" zwischen Paris und Kopenhagen zu erstellen. Erster Schritt hierzu waren die UIC-Y Wagen der SNCF. Dazu sollen noch Internationale Schlafwagen und Speisewagen kommen. Ebenso auch der dänische UIC-X, der baugleich mit dem Schweizer Pendant ist. Später habe ich auch vor, einige andere DSB-Wagen zu bauen, es gibt einige, die auch in anderen Ländern Verwendung fanden. Dies ist eines meiner Auswahlkriterien für neue Projekte: Ich suche möglichst vielseitige Vorlagen.


    Statt mich zu bezahlen, könnte ich folgendes Angebot machen. Wenn Du detaillierte Unterlagen, zum Beispiel Masszeichnungen und detaillierte Fotos von dänischen Vorbildern, in meinem Falle aus den sechziger und siebziger Jahren hast, bin auch ich am Bau solcher Modelle interessiert. Ich denke, sie werden sich auch hier verkaufen, denn in EEP gibt es ja die Ostseefähren und auch entsprechende Anlagen. Ich glaube, dass besonders jene, die Anlagen in Norddeutschland bauen, gerne auch Dänische Wagen auf der "Vogelfluglinie" einsetzen würden. Es gibt ja auch die dänische "Nohabs", von der, so weit ich weiss auch eine Neuauflage geplant ist (nicht von mir).


    Hello Dennis!


    Good to know that you are Danish. Since I have a small thing for you. I know this is a project from which the SNCF-CC 40100, which deals with the international trains in Cologne and the locomotive of the NMBS / SNCB series 18, is also part of the project "Nord-Express" between Paris and Copenhagen. The first step was the SNCF UIC-Y cars. International sleeping cars and dining cars are to come. Also the Danish UIC-X, which is identical with the Swiss counterpart. Later I also intend to build some other DSB cars, there are some that have also been used in other countries. This is one of my selection criteria for new projects: I am looking for possible versatile templates.



    Instead of paying me, I could make the following offer. If you have detailed documents, for example, dimensional drawings and detailed photos of Danish models, in my case from the sixties and seventies, I am also interested in the construction of such models. I think they will also sell here, because in EEP there are the Baltic Sea ferries as well as appropriate facilities. I believe that especially those who build facilities in northern Germany would like to use Danish cars on the "Vogelfluglinie". There are also the Danish "Nohabs", of which, as far as I know a new edition is planned (not from me).


    Gruß und Freundschaft,

    Hein vom Niederrhein :af_1:

    Gruß und Freundschaft,

    Hein vom Niederrhein


    Ein echter Freund spricht nicht zu Dir von oben herab, wenn Du am Boden liegst. Er legt sich neben Dich, und sagt:" Was für eine bescheidene Aussicht! Lass uns aufstehen."

    Autor unbekannt.


    "Man darf mir auch mal auf die Füsse treten. Man darf nur nicht darauf stehenbleiben!"

  • This community! You guys rock!

    I mean - I come here with all my crazy ideas and want to flip the universe upside down, and you guys welcome me with open arms. Now I will focus on my TT sets, and blend in the discussions around the relevant sections in the forum.

    Thanks for letting the Crazy Dane in...!

    All the best
    Dennis

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