Block Control Problem

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  • I have several layouts in which I'm able to rum Gleisplan and blockControl succussfully, all producing the generated block code.

    One layout however, only produces a time stamp ( no code) when I press generate . I'm using the very same procedure on all layouts.

    Eargerly seeking a solution.

  • Hi chucksim2 ,

    if you want Frank to get a message to help you, you have firstly to write his (nick)name correctly and secondly put an @ in front of it.

    I did this for you once.

    :bg_1:

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  • Hi @chucksim2,

    Zitat

    One layout however, only produces a time stamp ( no code) when I press generate .

    This happens if the Gleisplan program runs into an error while analyzing the anl3-file and does not provide a result for the generation program

    I guess you should send me this anl3-file which does not work (I do not need any of the other files of the layout to check the generating program).

    Greetings, Frank

    P.S. You can use conversations or the original thread to contact Rudy and me for all questions about the blockControl module as well:
    Lua Automatic Train Control for Any Layout: Version 2

    Online EEP-Tools: Gleisplan-Programm / Inventar-Programm

    EEP 15 ab Mai 2019 und EEP 17 ab Nov. 2021
    EEP 6 in 2011 und EEP 13 ab Januar 2019 sind eingemottet
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  • Hi frank.buchholz

    Since my the last posting, I found another layout that doesn't work. Hope it's okay with you to send both of them.

    How do I send them to you and I assume, enclose the anl3-file as an attachment.

    I had problems with the Fox River layout. Gleisplan showed 3 individual tracks in the NW corner - outer most tracks. I couldn't find them. My work around was to delete the problem area and recreate the trackage.

    Thanks

    Please keep in mind that I'm 85 and not too sharp anymore.

  • How do I send them to you ...

    Hello chucksim2

    put the cursor a short time over Frank's name

    until the window opens,

    there you see the mail-symbol:

    ---

    :aq_1:

    eep_gogo ( RG3 )

    -------------------------

    Intel i3-540 3,2GHz 8GB, RAID10, HD 6570 1GB, W7/64 Prof., EEP 6-6.1, 10-17.0, HN13+15/16+15/16DEV, TM, "Schiefe Ebene 6 + 8", "Bahn2000", "Faszination der St. Gotthard-Nordrampe"

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von eep_gogo (RG3) (2. Juni 2022 um 22:19)

  • Hallo frank.buchholz

    über diesen Weg ist aber wohl kein Anhang möglich?

    :aq_1:

    eep_gogo ( RG3 )

    -------------------------

    Intel i3-540 3,2GHz 8GB, RAID10, HD 6570 1GB, W7/64 Prof., EEP 6-6.1, 10-17.0, HN13+15/16+15/16DEV, TM, "Schiefe Ebene 6 + 8", "Bahn2000", "Faszination der St. Gotthard-Nordrampe"

  • über diesen Weg ist aber wohl kein Anhang möglich?

    Hallo Reinhold :)

    so ist es. Das Forum ist nicht zum Austausch von Dateien gedacht.

    Gruß Ingo

  • I 'm trying to send 3 anl3 files to frank.buchholz I assume that all I have to do is to copy the 3 files and paste them onto

    the attachments tab. When I click on the Attachments tab, nothing different occurs. I was expecting it to be highlighted or something else that inform me that i was on the attachment tab. Nothing happens when I click on Smiles, Attachments, Settings or Poll tabs either

    I think I need a step by step lesson on how to do all this. Are there tutorials on this subject?

    I've been using this soflware since Railroad X, EEP 11, EEP 12, EEP 13, EEP 14, EEP 15, EEP 16 and EEP 17. I continue to be amazed by its realism, etc.

  • I assume that all I have to do is to copy the 3 files and paste them onto

    the attachments tab. When I click on the Attachments tab, nothing different occurs.

    Hi :)

    no. As I wrote above: the forum is not intended for the exchange of files but to show EEP-related pictures only. You are just allowed to attach very few file types. You will have to send the files to frank.buchholz by email (or cloud). Please contact him by conversation.

    Best regards

    Ingo

  • Hello chucksim2

    the attachement you used, is only for attachements to THIS forum.

    As I wrote in #6 you should start the contact with Frank per email.

    Send him your email-address (but not here in the forum), he will answer you

    and send you HIS address, where you can send now your anl3-files to.

    A little bit complicated, but these are the rules of the forum.

    Hope, you will have success.

    :aq_1:

    eep_gogo ( RG3 )

    -------------------------

    Intel i3-540 3,2GHz 8GB, RAID10, HD 6570 1GB, W7/64 Prof., EEP 6-6.1, 10-17.0, HN13+15/16+15/16DEV, TM, "Schiefe Ebene 6 + 8", "Bahn2000", "Faszination der St. Gotthard-Nordrampe"

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von eep_gogo (RG3) (4. Juni 2022 um 19:56)

  • you should start the contact with Frank per email

    Hi Reinhold :)

    email ist not necessary for that. Conversation works as well.

    Regards Ingo

  • Hello chucksim2,

    I now got your three EEP 17 anl3-files via mail and had a look into them. Here are the findings:


    Files Fox River Ver 11- NEW Sgnals and Fox River Ver 12- NEW Sgnals

    Some road track definitions are defect. I assume that you do not see any issue in EEP because this program seems to ignore such errors and continues working.

    The previous version of the Gleisplan program is not robust enought to handle such issues and fails. As a consequence it was not able to generate the data for the blockControl module.

    -> This particular issue is now solved. Please try again. However, there might exist more problems with the layout and the placement of the block signals.

    The amazing Tauschmanager program is much smarter: This program is not only able shows the remaining layout correctly but allows to correct the file by deleting the defect tracks!

    -> Use the Tauschmanager program from HStoni54 to remove the defect tracks to repair the anl3-file.


    File "Boswell Junction - Version 25 - Buffalo" shows a similar defect accects some flora elements.

    -> Use theTauschmanager program to remove the defect elements

    (I can run the Tauschmanager program for you as well. In this case I would prefer that you send me the complete layouts including all files as a zip archive. Do you know how to create such a zip archive? I'll try to send some instructions via mail later.)


    In addition, the dead-ends behind turnout 25 do not have block signals yet. The current version of the blockGontrol generation program requires to have a block signal on each dead end. (The reason for this is that the program follows tracks and reflects the direction of searching at dead ends. Without a block signal, the same turnout is visited twice while searching for a route. This is interpreted as a forbidden cycle.)


    Technical details (for experts):

    The defect road tracks and flora elements show positions with NaN (Not a Number) values in the anl3 file.

    @EEP experts: Does anybody knows about this type of issue and how it could occur in EEP 17?

    (If yes, we should open a new thread to discuss this topic.)

    Example for a defect road track:

    Following roads with different track types show this NaN error:

    Road-36 Arc

    Road-159 Line

    Road-160 Line

    Road-161 Arc

    Road-162 Cubic

    Road-163 Arc

    Road-182 Helix

    Road-183 Arc

    Road-184 Arc

    Road-185 Helix

    Example for a defect flora element:

    Code
      <Immobile gsbname="\LSElemente\Flora\Gras\Gras_Sommer_02_30x3_RE1.3dm" Smoke="0" Fire="0" Light="0" ImmoIdx="3107" TreeShake="2" LockEd="0">
       <Dreibein>
        <Vektor x="-nan(ind)" y="-nan(ind)" z="-nan(ind)">Pos</Vektor>
        <Vektor x="-nan(ind)" y="-nan(ind)" z="-nan(ind)">Dir</Vektor>
        <Vektor x="-nan(ind)" y="-nan(ind)" z="-nan(ind)">Nor</Vektor>
        <Vektor x="-nan(ind)" y="-nan(ind)" z="-nan(ind)">Bin</Vektor>
       </Dreibein>
       <Modell/>
      </Immobile>

    Only 8 of quite many of these flora elements show the error. Most look fine like this one:

    Code
      <Immobile gsbname="\LSElemente\Flora\Gras\Gras_Sommer_02_30x3_RE1.3dm" Smoke="0" Fire="0" Light="0" ImmoIdx="3115" TreeShake="2" LockEd="0">
       <Dreibein>
        <Vektor x="32963.76" y="17493.57" z="0">Pos</Vektor>
        <Vektor x="-0.1860003" y="0.9825493" z="0">Dir</Vektor>
        <Vektor x="-0.9825493" y="-0.1860003" z="0">Nor</Vektor>
        <Vektor x="0" y="0" z="1.000016">Bin</Vektor>
       </Dreibein>
       <Modell/>
      </Immobile>

    Online EEP-Tools: Gleisplan-Programm / Inventar-Programm

    EEP 15 ab Mai 2019 und EEP 17 ab Nov. 2021
    EEP 6 in 2011 und EEP 13 ab Januar 2019 sind eingemottet
    XMP Core 17 Laptop mit Intel Core i7-10870H 8-Core-CPU, 16 GB Arbeitsspeicher, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU mit DirectX 12

    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von frank.buchholz (7. Juni 2022 um 12:24)

  • Does anybody knows about this type of issue and how it could occur in EEP 17?

    Hi Frank :)

    unfortunately no. This is a known problem. I had already passed this on internally.

    Regards Ingo

  • Hello chucksim2

    you are working on non-trivial layouts and you are converting the given control system into automated blockControl. That works fine in general but takes some time to configure. RudyB and me both did this exercise as well, and we both learned that's not as easy as just using our small demo layouts...

    You have to define block signals carefully. It is possible to have additional signals (which are ignored by blockControl), e.g. for display purpose or to support a road crossing, but this requires caution: the automated blockControl assums that it controls all block signals and related turnouts completely. No other process or no user interaction is allowed to touch them.

    Let's have a look to some special cases on your layouts:

    (Later I will add theses examples to the troubleshooting section of the documentation as well)

    Issue "Turnout between approching signal and main signal"

    On layout "Fox River Ver 12- NEW Sgnals" you find signal 38 with turnout 158 beeing located between the approaching signal and the main signal. Depending on the direction of trains running over this turnout this could be possible and useful and it could be possible that you can define the required route definition manually. However, the generation program cannot handle such a complicated case. Let's have a look to the documentation: "With automatic traffic, trains drive from block to block. The first decision to make is which blocks we want to define. There’s only one rule here: turnouts can not be part of a block, they are part of the routes between blocks."

    Issue "Two signals on same track"

    On layout "Fox River Ver 12- NEW Sgnals" you find two signal 29 and 76 on the same track 45. The generation program does not deal with the exact positions of signals on tracks but uses only the connection between tracks to find routes between signals. This simplifies the calculation but runs into trouble if two signals are located on the same track.

    I guess that both signals serve different purposes and only one of it is a real block signal controlling automated traffic. You can put the other signal onto the "ignored list" when generating the Lua code.

    Issue "Dead end without block signal"

    On layout "Boswell Junction - Version 25 - Buffalo" the dead-ends behind turnout 25 do not have block signals yet. The current version of the blockGontrol generation program requires to have a block signal on each dead end. The reason for this is that the program follows tracks and reflects the direction of searching at dead ends. Without a block signal, the same turnout is visited twice while searching for a route into and out of a dead end. This is interpreted as a forbidden cycle.

    Potential issue "Too many two way blocks"

    On both layouts you have defined many two way blocks. That's possible and works fine in the first place - and I love it, because it allows trains to go everywhere in any direction. However, this increases the risk of lockdown situations especially if there are many trains running. I tried it on one of our larger test layouts to define all platform tracks in stations as two way blocks which then forced me to define a long list of anti-deadlock-pathes manually. I suggest to start with only required two blocks and extend it later carefully.


    I love to continue working on your layouts to identify and solve more stuff!

    Greetings, Frank

    Online EEP-Tools: Gleisplan-Programm / Inventar-Programm

    EEP 15 ab Mai 2019 und EEP 17 ab Nov. 2021
    EEP 6 in 2011 und EEP 13 ab Januar 2019 sind eingemottet
    XMP Core 17 Laptop mit Intel Core i7-10870H 8-Core-CPU, 16 GB Arbeitsspeicher, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU mit DirectX 12